Splendid: My intention wasn't to take anything away from the work you'd done before…

John Darnielle: No, not at all. But I do think that the new record is a quantum leap forward.

Splendid: On a personal level, I've felt that you've really turned a corner with the last two albums. Your characters have become infinitely more real, if that makes any sense.

John Darnielle: I'm glad to hear you say that. A lot of old, hardcore people were hesitant to make the leap. I have somewhere around 400 songs of me and the boombox, and I could just keep doing that, of course, but I thought it would be interesting for me, would kick my songwriting up to a new level, if I sort of made myself more vulnerable to other things, rather than being a complete fascist about my songwriting. (laughs) With Tallahassee, it was really hard to talk me into certain things -- putting extra things (piano, vibes, drums) on that record. I wanted bass, vocals and guitar, and after that it turned into a lot of people saying, "let's see how it sounds with this", and I was hesitant because I figured that once people heard what it sounded like they wouldn't want to take it out. The new record, the team we were working with, I'd trust John Vanderslice with my life, because I think he really understands, to use a phrase that's going to sound pompous, my vision. He wouldn't have left anything in that he didn't think was good. I actually had to battle him to get more violin in on certain tracks (laughs).

Splendid: With Tallahassee it seemed like you ran into the same type of problems Guided by Voices faced when they ditched the 4-Track in favor of the studio, in that your hardcore faction was taken aback by the new direction -- they missed the lo-fi demeanor of it all.

John Darnielle: Well, some people continue to call it lo-fi! (laughs)

Splendid: Along with that, many people were dismayed with the death of the "Alpha Couple". For those who aren't familiar, could you please explain the whole premise and history of the alpha couple?

John Darnielle: When 4AD called, they asked me, "what would you do if you were to make a record for us?", and I had to kind of think on my feet there, because you don't just want to say, "I'll do what I do", and I'd had this idea in my head for a while about the couple -- what if they had a whole record to themselves? The people who are on All Hail West Texas are pretty similar, and I'd actually made some gestures towards that, but I hadn't woken the characters up, because it had become really painful to write about them. So really, that was the first thing that came to mind, that I'd long had this idea of waking up this couple and giving them a whole album's worth of space to work out their issues, sort of see what happens. The guys at 4AD were, like me, really excited at the possibilities of this format, of the characters, to see what happens. I really believe that Tallahassee's greatest strength is that it captures the depth of sadness of the characters, their anger and the core feelings of hatred, which isn't necessarily something that would have come through had I recorded the whole thing on the boombox. You get a song like "Have to Explode", which I think is my favorite song on that record, that just wouldn't have been possible without Tony Doogan, and Franklin and Peter.

But back to the main question. The Alpha couple are these people who get together in California, and they fall in love, but they're really broken people, and they're very bad for each other -- they're both big liquor enthusiasts. They move to Las Vegas and live in a motel for a year, out of a sort of romanticized vision of how they're supposed to live, and things just keep getting worse, so they just flee across the country in the hopes of starting a new life, but they haven't really thought it through at all. So they get to Tallahassee, and that's where I always envisioned them falling apart, in some tiny little house. We actually found what we consider the Tallahassee house when we were playing a tour date there one time. We were driving around and we saw this condemned house, not far from the club we were playing, and we couldn't believe it, it just was that place -- it was totally condemned. The door was open, and it's obviously not for sale, there's tape holding together the windows, and we went in, and we really felt like we were there. There was broken glass on the floor, and it was clear that people had been inhabiting it illegally, but weren't there at the moment. It was just really dank and it felt like something really bad had gone down in there. Then the next day we went back and the house was gone. Just leveled.

Splendid: So, do you then consider the Alphas dead? A dead issue?

John Darnielle: They're not dead. But I don't anticipate... Every time I've woken them back up, there's been more for them to say. I don't think I've done the perfect character study or anything. If I felt like there was something more to be gained through writing about them I'd be happy to do it, but I don't have any plans to revisit them. Then again, I didn't have plans to awaken them, then when I did I found that I had so much to say. I consider them done with, but, you know, life is long. (laughs)

Splendid: With the new record, it seemed like you had made a clean break, and were able to start with a clean compositional slate. Is that the case?

John Darnielle: Yeah, the new record is a clean slate in a lot of ways, but not so much because of them, they weren't haunting me. They'd lain dormant for many years. I started addressing subjects I hadn't thought about in years, and it was very electric for me to delve into.

Splendid: You've traveled to so many places (he's currently in North Carolina); how much does where you are affect who/what you're writing about?

John Darnielle: Probably, but not directly. I generally don't write about where I am, I write about other places. We'll see. I didn't write about the Portland people until fifteen years after the fact, and now a lot of my songs are about my wife, so we'll see if anybody from Iowa slips in down the line.

Splendid: In regard to "Against Pollution" from the new record, it seems to be the most autobiographical song you've ever written. Any truth in such a statement?

John Darnielle: Well, the feeling of it is real. My songs are always authentic in some way, even if the story itself isn't true. That story isn't true, nobody got shot in the face, but the song really rang for me. It's had to talk about songwriting without sounding really full of yourself (note: Darnielle never comes across in such a light), but in the sense that you've done something that you regret, but you had to do, there's a real moment of growth that takes place when that happens, and in that respect the song is true, even though the events never really happened.

Splendid: That makes sense, but for whatever reason, that song kind of comes across as an apology, like it was actually you saying "I'm sorry" to someone.

John Darnielle: That's the trick! (laughs) There are genuine autobiographical details in certain songs, and that's not one of them, but I mean, I was in a pretty autobiographical place when I wrote that stuff. I remember when I first played the demos for Peter, and after the first verse of that song he just stopped and said, "goddamn!" "Palmcorder Yajaa" is closer to being a true story, though I never lived in any of those hotel rooms, and I generally declined the opportunity to visit any of them, but I've been to them.

Splendid: It just seemed so real that it couldn't have come from anybody that wasn't there.

John Darnielle: I'm always resistant to the notion that you had to have been somewhere to envision it. I think you can inhabit a scene if you're willing to take your mind to that dark place that would let you go someplace like that. But those people are real, in a sense; I haven't seen any of them in fifteen years, since I stopped living that way.

The problem with most people that write that way is that they focus more on "is it true?" than "is it good writing?". Most things don't resonate when they're true; it's how the audience hears it when it doesn't have anything to do with them. So I've always been resistant towards that, from since I was a kid and wanted to become a writer. They'd say, "write about what you know", and I'd say "I'm a fucking kid" (laughs) I don't know anything -- I wanna write about monsters! But at the same time, I think my new songs are so much better than the old songs, and they're more rooted in truth. I guess what I'm going at is, first learn to write, then try to write about yourself, once you're able to distance yourself, to lose the notion that what was so spectacular to you isn't necessarily so spectacular to everyone.

None of the songs are specifically about my wife, but when I was 21 I was in a relationship that liquor took a major toll on. This girl had come home one night, all lit up, and she had written me this loving note before she went out, then she comes home drunk and she just grabs the note and runs outside and lights it on fire. Just really this totally overdramatic scene. I've never used that scenario in a song, but this scene is slipping out of control, where you're not sure what's going to happen next.

Splendid: The way you've explained it makes so much sense -- that the little bits of you we see in your characters are intentional, if not necessarily autobiographical.

John Darnielle: That's something I've been saying for years, and it brings me to my main point, that nobody's songs are true. The most intentionally confessional song still has to force itself into language, still isn't true while it's going on, and is so far removed that the burden of making it real is mainly on the listener. The artist should do his/her best, but no song, poem, play, et cetera, is real, and it only becomes real through craft. The weird magic of the whole thing is that, basically, what you're doing is reshaping the event so it can be real for the listener. Otherwise, if you're singing about pain, you're not physically agonizing over the words. (He makes pained arrggghhhhh noises, then screams "this sucks")

Splendid: Have you given any thought to the next record?

John Darnielle: I've got a bunch of songs written, but I'm not quite sure what direction they're going in just yet. There's a couple of things -- there's an idea, a story, of people who have a daughter who dies the day after she's born, so they start a religious cult, worshipping her. The first song of the series, it's a really good song, I really like it... But at the same time, my ideas -- because I'm so happy with the new album, of revisiting some really ugly times from my adolescence involving my stepfather and such, things I've never ever tried to write about -- seem like a good idea, to at least see what happens. Peter thinks that's a really good idea. I only have one song I've written about this stuff, and it's one I've never released, but it's still a popular live number that people yell for. So I don't really know; I have some songs written, but I haven't really gauged the next album yet.

Splendid: The story about the dying girl and the cult sounds vaguely Neutral Milk Hotel-ish...

John Darnielle: Interesting.

Splendid: It just seems to have that kind of bizarre romanticized baroque feel about it, and what with Jeff having gone off the deep end, you're seemingly fated to slot into his position as the new king of idiosyncratic singer/songwriters.

John Darnielle: (chuckles a bit) I don't think Jeff's completely lost it; I think he'll surprise you at some point. But yeah, I can kind of see where those comparisons come from, though I think they're far outweighed by the differences inherent in each of our particular styles. He's a nice person to be compared to, though.

Splendid: Do you think you'll continue to make recording a collaborative process? Or are you inclined to go back to you and the boombox?

John Darnielle: Right now, I'm so pleased with the way things are going that I plan on continuing that way. The thing with the boombox is that I know it's always there if I want to go back to it some day.

Splendid: You seem to have a really polarizing effect on people. Either they love you to pieces or hate your guts. Why do you think that is?

John Darnielle: I've always loved that. Especially when a reviewer didn't like my stuff, they'd go out of their way to be mean about it! (laughs) But for me, I've always been drawn to bands like that -- The Birthday Party, for instance, are a very polarizing type of band. People tend go one of two ways with them; either they think they're the greatest thing they've ever heard, or they make a rumpled face and say "what the fuck is this shit?" Lots of people are into Nick Cave, but not the Birthday Party. I still say that if you like Cave, but not the Birthday Party, then you need to spend more time with it until it sinks in. But for some people it won't ever sink in, no matter how long they listen. (laughs)

Splendid: Any plans to tour with a whole backing band? To re-create the intricacies of the albums?

John Darnielle: I'm always one to never say never, but probably not. I really like what Peter and I are doing. There are so many bands, but not very many guitar and bass duos. Sure, the "guy with a guitar" thing has been done to death, too, but I like being able to galvanize a crowd the way an entire band would -- get them up on their feet, without a drummer behind me prodding them along.

Splendid: Are you writing much now, on the road, in your travels?

John Darnielle: I keep a secret journal, but it's just daily details of life, not anything tangible musically. Just thoughts on paper.