When I was in Basic Training, the drill sergeant once gathered us all around and said "If you wanna do well with the ladies, you need yourself some Keith Sweat." Assuming that Keith Sweat's dead now, I sometimes wonder if that same drill sergeant is now telling privates that Sean Na Na is the new Love Supreme out there. As a cool bunch of guys who've put out a few songs ("Princess and the Pony", "The Bottom") that are simply perfect, they are a sure bet to make women who frown upon pop music fall to their beds and start reassessing.

Splendid: "Dancing on graves" is an image that appears in both "Princess and the Pony" and "Grey Clouds". Does this sort of juxtaposition between joy and sadness kind of define your songs?

Sean Tillman: That's one of the things I was going for when I started the band. Something that was a lot more poppy than my former projects, but I also wanted it not be straight up like sugar, 'cause that's not what I'm like...I like the contradictions there, and Elvis Costello and everyone did it. It always works out very well.

Splendid: Did Samuel Beckett, Stanley Elkin or any of these writers of black comedy have an influence?

Sean Tillman: Aw yeah, Samuel Beckett's my favorite writer. He's my favorite playwright and I studied him a lot earlier...I also read a lot of Pinter and the other basic existentialist guys. Their theories were awesome and I totally agreed with them, and the way they presented those theories was awesome.

Splendid: Was "the Bottom" inspired by any particular incident?

Sean Tillman: That was mostly done in an (Illinois) rut. Half of the record was written while I was in Chicago and I was just getting fed up with a lot of people and a lot of the attitudes, and living in a really shitty basement apartment where it was always damp, and I'd just sit in there, really pissed and drink Old Style and smoke pot by myself and write these horribly angry songs and then I'd just go record them. I went and recorded half of the record with my friends Nate and Dave because Jeremy was still working, and couldn't come down, and wasn't actually playing with me at that point, and neither was Ben. I just did it and came back, and went, well, pretty sweet! But that rut's what capped it off and made me (decide I had to) get out of there. All the songs that Ben and Jeremy don't play on the record came during that really angry period, and I wasn't touring, and I was kind of getting stir crazy. That song's mainly about the Chicago scenester...

AUDIO: Sean Na Na's "The Bottom"

Splendid: I guess "the Bottom" reminded me a lot of a song like "Androgynous", a nice sensitive portrait of people who are laughed at...

Sean Tillman: Yeah totally, but it's not like I was picked at or anything. I had tons of friends in Chicago; I just couldn't get into that realm...

Splendid: Was Paul Westerberg a songwriting influence?

Sean Tillman: He was for me. It was one of those things where my sister really liked him and she was older so I didn't fully like him then because it was her thing, and then I sort of discovered him later. "Let it Be" is still one of my favorites; it's awesome.

Splendid: Do you like his solo career?

Sean Tillman: I haven't followed it too closely. It's been fairly disappointing from what I've sat down and listened to.

Lucky Jeremy: I really like watching people get old and see what happens to them.

Splendid: Has Sean Na Na ever been approached by Peter Jesperson (of Twin Tone and Medium Cool fame), or by any other rather legendary Minneapolis figures?

Sean Tillman: Well, there are plenty of rock luminaries around the Twin Cities. I know and have met a lot of them. I can't tell who people would freak out about. They're all just people. I've never met Peter Jesperson, I don't think.

Splendid: Are Sean Na Na's overall feelings about Chicago negative?

Sean Tillman: Oh I like Chicago, I just don't want to live there. I'm not a huge fan of that whole Tortoise subset...but I'm just not into the attitudes as much as anything. It's awesome when you see people once every few weeks or few months, but when you're around all the people that much, everyone's really negative and nobody really works for anything. It's all about going and being seen at the Rainbow.

Lucky Jeremy: I had a really bad job in Chicago, and I just didn't have any time to do anything fun. It was mostly my own fault why I didn't like that place.

Splendid: Am I correct in finding Pauly Shore allusions in "Rim Shot Na Na Na" (i.e. the "ah-oooh" part)?

Lucky Jeremy and Sean Tillman: Yes, yes.

Splendid: Can the fascination with unicorns be explained?

Sean Tillman: No, not really. It started out as a joke, really, and now it's genuine. I like unicorns.

Lucky Jeremy: They're beautiful and magical.

Sean Tillman: They are magical and mystical. They make me feel I'm a fifth grade girl all over again. All over again.

AUDIO: Sean Na Na's "The Unicorn"

Splendid: Two of your songs, "Lonely Man" (where a man suffers from complete consciousness) and "Cha Cha Cha" (with the line, "pray the Lord your soul to steal"), reminded me of Beckett's novel Murphy in that its main character yearned for nothingness. He talks about getting hooked to a respirator so a machine can breathe for him, allowing him more energy to devote to inertia. Do you think to a certain degree that numbness and indifference are the ideal?

Sean Tillman: In general I'm a pretty indifferent person, as far as most situations go. I may get temporarily annoyed but I never really act on it; I let it pass or don't say anything and get really mad at myself...but yeah, I don't think I really yearn for any sort of non-thought! I like thinking.

Splendid: Do the lyrics come in spurts?

Sean Tillman: Definite spurts. Sometimes I'll write five songs in a week and then not write any for a year. It's sort of, whenever you're inspired. Sometimes, when I'm on tour, I'll write a whole bunch of lyrics, and sift through them when I get home and piece them together... And then add guitar parts, because right now I'm really at a mental block for writing them. I don't want to do anything super simple, but then again I don't wanna get all free-jazzy or anything unnecessary for the project.

Splendid: When listening to "Grey Clouds", am I wrong or is there some Native American fella that did y'all wrong ?

Sean Tillman: No, god! Whoah, where'd you get that?

Splendid: Well, assuming Grey Cloud was the name of an individual, and you're kicking him down the steps --

Sean Tillman: Aw no, it's not about one person. It's more about many people I dislike, the people who are around like a grey cloud. When everything you do in a room with that person is trivialized, or you feel like you can't look people in the eyes just because of that one person sitting over there. That's it, the whole grey cloud.

Splendid: Is it right to say that Sean and Lucky Jeremy have a similar writing style? In "My Old France", the song that starts "Heard any great drummer jokes?", I was surprised at first to see it wasn't written by Sean too.

Lucky Jeremy: We've lived together for like four or five years and have a lot of the same attitudes towards stuff.

Sean Tillman: It's almost eerie sometimes because we write everything separately -- like Lucky Jeremy's stuff is totally there, and (pointing in the opposite direction) Sean Na Na is totally there...

Lucky Jeremy: We'll get the same idea at the same time sometimes.

Sean Tillman: Or we'll come with these songs that are about the same thing but are totally different. 'Cause we never talk about it until a song is done...

Splendid: So you never collaborate?

Sean Tillman: Sometimes, but I kinda write the songs when I'm sitting around, then I show them to everybody and they all write their own parts. When we're in the studio I do all the vocals and the backups because, well, it's easier that way. We pretty much don't ever practice until we're about to go on tour.

Splendid: Is that because Ben lives so far away (in Austin)?

Sean Tillman: Yeah, and we're also pretty lazy.

Splendid: When you were with Calvin Krime, Sean, I heard you and a lot of fellow Amp Rep bands had trouble making new songs with the advent of Ninetendo?

Sean Tillman: Yeah, we got lazy, and (by being lazy) we then don't need to pay practice space rent.

Splendid: Are there any prospects of a future tour with Har Mar Superstar (Sean's "brother")?

Sean Tillman: Oh yeah, definitely... Har Mar Superstar's a totally separate project, but he's gonna tour a lot -- about three months a year.

AUDIO: Har Mar Superstar's "Do You Like My Clothes?"

Splendid: Does he dress differently (from you, Sean)?

Sean Tillman: Yeah, he wears jumpsuits and that sort of thing. He's more theatrical than I am.

Splendid: Sean, since you were almost in the movie "Mighty Ducks", I was wondering if the band ever considered a show where "Mighty Ducks" might be playing behind you onstage...

Sean Tillman: Yeah, that would be good! If Emilio would agree to it and come onstage and stand in a box, I'd pay him. Ten or fifteen bucks at least, if you're reading this, Emilio.

Splendid: If Hollywood does a film on Sean Na Na, who would you want to play your roles?

Sean Tillman: Good question...I can't speak for everyone else, but I would like to be played by Fred Savage.

Splendid: Would you say there are interests in taking the Sean Na Na experience beyond music and into such areas as film, poetry or art?

Sean Tillman: I would like to maybe do a film score sometime, but I don't think I could limit myself to Sean Na Na while doing so. It would be a very uneven mixtape to me. I'm not a poetry guy, though. Sean Na Na will probably just remain a fun pop band. If I were scoring I'd probably just go as Sean Tillmann... it seems fitting.

Splendid: What are some of the groups that influenced your adolescence?

Sean Tillman: I think the Crosby Stills Nash and Young Deja Vu record. It's the one thing I listened to a lot while younger.

Splendid: Even at five?

Sean Tillman: Oh five or six, it was more Michael Jackson, Def Leppard for me. I had the Mad Max Beyond ThunderDome and Footloose soundtracks too, but that was more like 5th or 6th grade when I listened to Neil Young. I listened to a lot of crap too, like Black Crowes and all that.

Lucky Jeremy: I would say Springsteen. My parents were from New Jersey and they had all the old records. The first four are really good, and the first two are my favorites.

Splendid: How did the song for your sister's wedding ever come to be?

Sean Tillman: I couldn't think of a present to buy, 'cause I never did that type of thing, and I was starting to write these pop songs and it was like, well, I ought to give that as a present... I've totally forgotten how to play it.

AUDIO: Sean Na Na's "Two of the Same Name"

Splendid: Have y'all ever played any weddings?

Sean Tillman: Me and Jeremy are playing one later in July for our friend Vanessa's mom. I think a lot of times we're a little too lewd, lyrically, for a wedding context.

Lucky Jeremy: We really don't know enough songs to play weddings. I think the longest would be about fifty minutes.

Sean Tillman: That would be everything and a bunch of horrible covers.

Splendid: Sean, have you always joined Atom on stage during his show?

Sean Tillman: Just the last few shows (where he headlined for us). It's been fun.

Lucky Jeremy: We always ask Atom to tour with us, so that people will come out! It always works out for us.

Sean Tillman: We toured the West Coast with Atom in the fall of '99 too. We're good friends.

Splendid: Are there any "Shopping Spree" records planned between you and Atom Goren?

Sean Tillman: Naw, Har mar and Atom will be doing a split 45 and it might be coming out in the Fall or something. It definitely will be out and available.

Splendid: Do you ever perform the Calvin Krime songs in a more poppy way now, like you seem to prefer?

Sean Tillman: No, everything from Calvin Krime turned out like we wanted it to. It's not anything like that. It was just a totally different project, and by the end we were melding the two styles a little bit...When I was first doing solo shows with just me and guitar, I did like one or two Calvin Krime songs, but I did it like two shows and then never again. There was no reason.

AUDIO: Calvin Krime's "Mascara"

Splendid: Is it fair to say that women (like Lois Maffeo, Elizabeth Elmore and Mary Lou Lord) have been among the strongest supporters of your band?

Sean Tillman: Yes, we're for the ladies!

Ben Webster: Chicks dig us.

Sean Tillman: We're all about it! Yeah, it's been awesome, but I guess it goes by the person. I'm sure there are girls who hate us too.

Lucky Jeremy: A lot of people really like us, and they probably shouldn't. We don't know why.

Sean Tillman: It's probably cause we drink a lot and party with them.

Splendid: What's in the future for Sean Na Na? Will you stick together for a long time?

Sean Tillman: Yeah. Well, as long as these guys want to. It's definitely my favorite lineup. We always have a really good time.

Splendid: And having Ben in Austin doesn't make it difficult?

Sean Tillman: Not really. It hasn't yet.

Ben Webster : Well, we like to hang out all the time, but maybe that's because we don't live in the same town, so when we do finally come together, it's really awesome. It's one of those things where you don't really play all the time with people you click with hard enough, so you catch new things all the time...In some ways the distance just makes us stronger.

Splendid: Even money-wise, it doesn't hurt?

Sean Tillman: Not really. The only time we get together is when we're on tour and so we're all making money together then... We're not a band that needs to practice three times a week. We just get together and have as much fun as possible.

Splendid: Ben, are you in a band in Austin?

Ben Webster : Yeah, I play with Society of Friends, and also this band called Attack Formation. Attack Formation is newer, but Society of Friends has been around a few years. They're like grunge-core bands. There's a huge hardcore underground scene in Austin. That band's a lot different than this band. They generally play for just hardcore fans, which is good too, but Sean Na Na plays for anybody, anytime.

Splendid: Has Society of Friends, Attack Formation, and/or Lucky Jeremy ever performed on the same ticket or within the same show as Sean Na Na?

Sean Tillman: Lucky Jeremy has played with Sean Na Na. We like to keep it separate at this point, so people don't get really confused. We have not played with Attack Formation as of yet, and I don't think the other guys in Society of Friends would be too into playing with us. That's a whole different story. Nothing bad though... just a matter of personal tastes, although I think they rock.

Splendid:Who are some of your favorite bands right now?

Sean Tillman: Well, the Holy Childhood, who we've been on tour with. They're a really awesome band.

Lucky Jeremy: And Quasi, Drums and Tuba...

Sean Tillman: There's so many. The Rondelles are great, and the Selby Tigers. They're from St Paul, and they just signed to Hopeless Records, and I think their record will be out in the Fall. I'm excited for them, they're a really great band. It's like a big community in St Paul. We all live on Selby Avenue.

Splendid: Are there any old singers you're still into?

Sean Tillman: I still like what Bob Mould's doing. He always comes through lyrically and everything.

Splendid: Do you like the wrestling?

Sean Tillman: Wrestling: the band?

Splendid: No, I read Bob Mould now writes out the matches for WWF or one of them?

Sean Tillman: Aww, weird, I had no idea. That's awesome.

Splendid: There's a line in "Little Leaning Tower", the false teeth line...what does it mean?

Sean Tillman: Well, if you have false teeth in the wrong mouth, it's not going to work.

Splendid: How long do y'all tour?

Sean Tillman: About three months a year. That's where our income comes from, mostly. I try not to work except maybe two months a year. I proofread laws for the state of Minnesota, but only when they need it.

Splendid: Are there any particular aspirations that have to be put on hold while you are out on tour?

Sean Tillman: Not really. Touring is part of the package. I have a good time. I don't feel like I'm sacrificing anything.

Splendid: Will Sean Na Na tour Europe or Japan? Are you marketed heavily in Japan?

Sean Tillman: We plan to go to both Europe and Japan. It's just a matter of timing. The records are heavily distributed in Japan... I'm not sure about Europe. Right now I'm just focusing on the Japan part. Something is in the works. It's my dreamland.

Splendid: If you played on Prairie Home Companion, or Live at the Apollo, which event would you most enjoy? What kind of audience would be most receptive to Sean Na Na?

Sean Tillman: The Apollo... definitely. That's quality entertainment. I love the Apollo even though Steve Harvey isn't at all funny. We're energetic enough to hold the audience captive, I believe.

Splendid: Given the name similarity to Sha Na Na, have you ever tried to perform a 50's medley as that group? Has confusion over your name ever worked in your favor, like getting you booked at venues (like Hershey Park) which otherwise might not have been interested?

Sean Tillman: The other Na Na has not affected us yet. I can't justify a medley, but a Hershey Park show would rock.

Splendid: What role do you think the internet plays in determining whether new bands will succeed or fail?

Sean Tillman: I don't pay attention. No one will succeed by the internet alone. Everyone still has to work hard. Those who don't will feel the wrath.

Splendid: Did any of you attend the famous language camps in Minnesota? Did you have mostly typical Midwest childhoods?

Sean Tillman: No language camp, but my childhood was very typical. I was popular until I learned to hate others. I kept the flame alive for future haters. Now I hate a whole bunch of people and situations.

Splendid: While touring, would Sean Na Na rather travel by plane, car, horseback or by train?

Sean Tillman: Camel. Definitely. We're Stevie Wonder on this one.

Splendid: What are the best perks with being in a rock band?

Sean Tillman: Free things... and great hygiene, of course.

Splendid: Any last words?

Sean Tillman: Well, should we begin our intervention with Ben?